So yeah, wanted a noticeable thread and enjoy any excuse to drop a Modest Mouse reference. I put this chunk of text in the thread about us "not being elite", but it kind of got buried because it really wasn't on par with the course of the debate. But for the sake of discussion and noteriety, I'll put it here. Tell me your thoughts and give me some hope because I feel more down and negative on these boards after a win then I do going on the ESPN boards that are almost all built to tear the Cavs down and that's just...depressing:

I just have to wonder in times like this: let's say Lebron resigns with the Cavs like everyone wants, but then two seasons from now, he sustains an injury and is out for awhile and when comes back, it takes a logn time for him to fully recover. We don't do so well. We fall to 4th or 5th in the East, we get beat in the first round of the playoffs by...IDK...Miami. I have to wonder if many of you will still be there the next season.

I'm not saying there isn't problems to fix and that people don't have the right to their opinions, but you treat every game like it's game 4 of the Finals and we're now down 3-1. Going on the ESPN boards and what not, when other top level teams lose, their fans make the usual call-outs, but I've easily never seen such blatant negativity and head-hunting after each bad game.

Maybe you were all too spoiled last season. I'm sure most of you are either too young to know or came along to jump on the bandwagon too late, but this team has went through crap a whole lot in the last 20+ years and just getting to cheer for a team that will make the playoffs and will likely land a top 4 seed means you have something to cheer for that the majority of NBA fans don't.

Yet you treat the oppurtunity like crap and you act as if a team not having the best record in the league and not clinching the top spot in the conference is somehow belittling to your existence. And don't think I take losses easily, I shout and yell and what not and it drives me crazy, especially when I was at the game last night and watched that ugly freak Noah body Lebron to the point he couldn't get up a shot and yet there was no whistle.

But just because you get mad at a loss doesn't mean that every loss should be the call to abandon ship. I'm not trying to be mean, but a lot of you, and not just on this particular thread but all over, sound like spoiled little brats and I'm not an old man by any stretch, so I'm just spewing venom because of you "young whipper snappers". But seriously, you guys sound like spoiled Yankees fans or Lakers fans who usually get what they want and expect a perfect record and championship every season like they're entitled because they decided to like a team.

Again, we have problems yes, but it's not like we are doing horrible, we are just on the cusp from solving them. It's a very, very long season, maybe if we're .500 and in second or third in the central come the all-star break, panic could be seen as more sensible (though still not needed). I hope we all stay Cavs fans because we love the team and will support them no matter what, but there are a lot of people on here who just make me wonder if we were to lose LBJ or we were to, God forbid, not be a top team in the conference, would turn tail and disown this team- and that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I wish a good day to all and better days to the Cavs. 

one question, what bandwagon? Guys can't be a fan of the Cavs if they weren't 20 years ago or maybe won't be twenty years from now? it makes no sense. Times change, teams change. I was a bulls fan when Jordan played but not so much now. Guess I was more of a Jordan fan.

Also people criticize those games because it was bad basketball. The cavs are looking sloppy at times. It's one thing to gel but to look sloppy as if they don't know basic basketball things, is not excusable.

Nov 7, 2009 -- 1:27AM, Bronsfan wrote:

one question, what bandwagon? Guys can't be a fan of the Cavs if they weren't 20 years ago or maybe won't be twenty years from now? it makes no sense. Times change, teams change. I was a bulls fan when Jordan played but not so much now. Guess I was more of a Jordan fan.

Also people criticize those games because it was bad basketball. The cavs are looking sloppy at times. It's one thing to gel but to look sloppy as if they don't know basic basketball things, is not excusable.

Also, do you feel you're a Cavs fan or a Lebron fan? You can be either and I won't fault you, I just get annoyed by people who claim to be a Cavs fan when really they are a Lebron fan and will move on if he does.

Nov 7, 2009 -- 1:48AM, Andrew wrote:

I remember when I jumped on the Cavs bandwagon. Jordan was a freshman at UNC. Through the years I've been at the front of the wagon, almost fell off a couple of times, practically got ran over by it but for whatever reason I just can't seem to get away from it completely. I'll still be a fan for as long as I'm still here or as long as the Cavs are still around whichever is shorter. I might flirt with other teams or players but my one true basketball love will always be the Cleveland Cavaliers.

And that's exactly how I feel and the situation is quite akin. Not saying a person has to share the same story or can't like other teams (GS is my Western fav), but I'm just so sick of new age bandwagoners who go Chicken Little every time we lose. They did it during last season and we ended up with the best record. Granted, we lost..err...choked against the Magic, but I remember people saying these same things about the upcoming season after the first week or so and then we ripped off a 20 game streak or something.

Granted, we're not the same team, but I think a team and that team's coach and GM and owner deserve a couple weeks to establish themselves before we all head for the gangplank.

People talk about how a lot of teams had different parts, but they neglect to think about the fact that though Toronto and Orlando and Boston added a player or two, Shaq (and not having Z) start changes our dynamic and our playing style as a whole. In the other situations, the guys just come in to strengthen, much like how we added Mo Williams as an upgrade or how we have Moon as a better bench player. With Shaq, it's completely different, especially because of how different he is than Z. Imagine that the Suns randomnly get rid of Steve Nash at the trade deadline and somehow (this is a magical fake world) land a score first driving PG like Tony Parker. It wouldn't just be a change, it would change the dynamic of the Suns.

That's what Shaq does for us as he has done with all teams he has been moved to. Again, not saying there aren't problems and we haven't been sloppy because that's naive, just that it's not time to abandon ship just yet and acting like it's the end of the world is not only fool-hardy, it's naive, childish and simply a counter-productive mental masterbation of sorts that accomplishes little more than annoying some and adding fuel to the fire of the crazy pessimists that seem to cohabitate these boards in such quantity. Sorry for the vocab, I'm laying down the sports section at my newspaper and am still in writer modem apologies.

Nov 7, 2009 -- 1:58AM, TruWitness23 wrote:

Sounds like your the one who's rattled my man.

Nov 7, 2009 -- 1:11AM, Here Before the Bandwagon wrote:

 especially when I was at the game last night and watched that ugly freak Noah body Lebron to the point he couldn't get up a shot and yet there was no whistle.

And stop trying to blame anything on the officials.  Every team gets calls that go their way over the other team

Not rattled my friend because that would imply that this is some kind of quick angry outburst. Nah...this is far more of a wave of melancholy that has kept building and building until I finally decided to just let it spill out. And as far as the game goes, I thought I mentioned somewhere else that the lack of call did not excuse the Cavs from horrible play, if I did not, I apologize. But, being there, having to watch the replay 7 times as the refs decided whose ball it was, it was pretty clear and I can guarantee you that if it was Kobe or D-Wade or Arenas, they would have been at the line. Just because you shouldn't blame the refs for everything doesn't mean the refs can't screw up a major call.